STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Massachusetts Representative Seth Moulton is among the House Democrats who are criticizing the Senate deal, and he's on the line. Congressman, good morning.
SETH MOULTON: Good morning.
INSKEEP: Here's an argument, listening to Domenico, that you could make in favor of reopening the government now. You made your point. You raised your issue. You don't have the power to prevail on the issue right now, but you made it clear who's blocking you and now you move on. What's wrong with that thinking?
MOULTON: Why would you give up now? I mean, this is actually when the Republicans seem to be starting to give in. You have Marjorie Taylor Greene, one of the most extreme Republicans in history, saying that she can't afford health care for her own family. And so the Democrats are right, and Republicans should give in. Just after the Democratic sweep in last Tuesday's elections, you had Trump come out and say the shutdown is a real problem. You need to come bring this to an end. So why you would give up now and put Americans in a position where they're not going to be able to afford health care in a few months? I just don't know. We're the only folks standing between Donald Trump and the American people.
INSKEEP: There was, of course, an opposite position expressed by John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. He's one of the Democrats who voted to reopen the government. And he spoke with our colleague, Scott Detrow, on All Things Considered yesterday. Let's listen to that.
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JOHN FETTERMAN: I absolutely support extending those tax credits. But for me, the kinds of chaos and holding our government hostage is unacceptable. And you can have priorities, but it's wrong to go shutting our government down.
INSKEEP: Do you think that another week or another month would have made a difference?
MOULTON: I think it would've. I think the administration was feeling the pressure, especially going into the Thanksgiving holiday. They didn't want chaos over Thanksgiving. They didn't want people unable to get home for Thanksgiving. This was just the wrong time to give in. You don't capitulate at the moment where you think that the other side is actually coming around. With all due respect to Senator Fetterman, I mean, he sounds like he's using Trump's talking points here. And that's what we don't need. We don't need people who are giving in to Donald Trump. We need people who are fighting for him on behalf of - fighting him on behalf of the American.
INSKEEP: Well, that raises another interesting question because as some people will know, Congressman, you're running for U.S. Senate from Massachusetts. You're in the Democratic primary. If you were to win, would you be voting for the Senate Democratic leader Chuck Schumer to remain the Democratic leader?
MOULTON: No, I will not. I think there's a leadership vacuum in the Democratic Party right now, and it's time for a new generation of Democrats to step up. And that's the message I'm running on in Massachusetts, and it's the message that we need to hear across the country. The two brightest spots for Democrats in the past week were Abigail Spanberger in Virginia and Mikie Sherrill in New Jersey, representing a new generation of leadership and now taking over entire states. That's what Democrats are excited about right now. We're frustrated, frankly, with the status quo, with the same old playbook that Schumer and others are using that's led us to a second term of Donald Trump, where he's hurting a lot of people.
INSKEEP: I'm intrigued by your analysis of last week's elections because you mentioned the Democrats who won the governors' races in Virginia and New Jersey, who are considered a bit more pragmatic. You did not mention Zohran Mamdani, the democratic socialist on the Democratic ticket who won the mayoralty of New York. Where does he fit into your analysis of the direction of the party?
MOULTON: He's also young. He also represents a new generation of leaders. I mean, that's the point. The people who are winning right now are a new generation who's stepping up to make a difference for this country. And that's what we need right now. The status quo has not worked. And people right now who are just protecting the establishment, they're not getting it done for the Democratic Party.
INSKEEP: Are you getting close - and I don't mean in terms of policies, but in terms of attitude - getting close to the place that House Republicans have been for a number of years, that they would almost rather burn things down than sustain things, that they don't feel there's really very much value in the system as it stands?
MOULTON: Listen, the point is that Donald Trump is trying to tear apart this country. He's trying to burn things down. So this is not a time to give in to him. This is the time to stand up to Donald Trump. And we have very few moments where we can actually do this. But the two biggest moments in the last year, the shutdown in March and the shutdown right here, in both cases, Senator Schumer has given in.
INSKEEP: Any chance you might still get what you want here? By which I mean this has passed the Senate. It goes to the House. Democrats seem united against it or nearly united against it, and maybe Republicans will not muster the votes to pass it.
MOULTON: Well, we don't know. It'll be a close vote in the House. The Democratic House Caucus is quite united against this deal. And there are a lot of Democrats across the country who do not agree with these Senate Republicans who gave in and do not understand why Senator Schumer, who's supposed to lead Senate Republicans - sorry, Senate Democrats, allowed them to do that.
INSKEEP: Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts. It's a pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.
MOULTON: Always good to talk to you, Steve.
INSKEEP: And we'll note that as always, we invite multiple Republicans as well as Democrats on the program to discuss the shutdown. We'll keep reaching out to them. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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