LEILA FADEL, HOST:
President Biden called the news of Yahya Sinwar's killing a moment of justice that could open a path to peace. For more on what this killing means, we're joined by Khaled Elgindy. He's with the D.C.-based Middle East Institute, a nonpartisan think tank, where his work focuses on Palestinian-Israeli affairs. Good morning, and thank you for being on the program.
KHALED ELGINDY: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
FADEL: So is Sinwar's killing an opening for a hostage deal and an end to this war in Gaza?
ELGINDY: Yeah. It is very much potentially an opening because he was definitely at the top of Israel's most wanted list. He's believed to be the architect of October 7, and it's been pretty clear for a while that at least as far as Israelis were concerned, the war couldn't end until they had some sort of moment that they could declare victory. And so I think Sinwar's death provides them with that victory narrative, even if they're looking for a trophy, I think this would be it. But it's not at all clear that Prime Minister Netanyahu was actually interested in winding down this war. I mean, if you look at what's happening in Northern Gaza, for example, this war has extended far beyond Hamas or Sinwar or Hamas' leadership. There's been a deliberate denial of any kind of food assistance into all of Northern Gaza for more than two weeks now.
FADEL: Yeah. Something the U.S. has expressed concern about.
ELGINDY: Right. And so I think this war is about something much bigger than just Hamas. And that's the future of Gaza and the Palestinians in general.
FADEL: Now, Israel has been able to take out the head of Hamas and Hezbollah in a matter of weeks. And yet, they've come out and decimated a lot of their leadership. But they've come out with these defiant statements, right? Hezbollah and Lebanon promising to escalate its war against Israel just hours after the news of Sinwar's killing, and Hamas saying they will only get stronger. What do you make of these statements?
ELGINDY: Yeah. I mean, that's what you would expect them to say. Of course, they're not going to roll over and give up. But it's true that all leaders are replaceable. I mean, you know, Yahya Sinwar is not - certainly not the first and probably won't be the last Hamas leader to be assassinated by Israel. You know, the Israeli assassinations of Palestinian leaders go back decades, including leaders of the PLO. And those organizations survived. And Hamas will also survive. It is, of course, in military terms, greatly weakened. In political terms, I'm not sure that it's weaker today. It's far more popular among Palestinians at least outside of Gaza. Gaza, as we heard a moment ago, is a much more mixed bag, obviously, because they are getting the brunt of Israel's military action.
So - but it's clear that Hamas will survive. It is - if you poll Palestinians today, I think you'll find a majority who believe that Hamas is probably more popular than any other political movement. And so it's not going to disappear. And so that raises the question of, you know, is there something beyond a military solution to this? So far, the answer from Israel is no. They only have one tool, which is to sort of pound Gaza, pound Hamas. But at the end of the day, this is going to require a political settlement, including just getting to a cease-fire.
FADEL: And when you say a political settlement, do you mean including Hamas, which is, you know, a designated terrorist organization in the U.S. and other Western nations?
ELGINDY: Yeah. Sure. I mean, that's, you know, Hamas is part of the Palestinian political fabric, and it will remain so. And they clearly have the ability to wage war. And so any group that has the capacity to make war needs to be part of the process toward making peace. Otherwise, it just doesn't really make sense.
FADEL: And just in a few seconds we have left, I mean, you talk about a future end to this war quite pessimistically in this moment. I mean, can you imagine a post-war Gaza right now?
ELGINDY: It's very hard to imagine a post-war Gaza given the scale of death and destruction. I mean, at this point, it's unclear whether Gaza will be livable for the 2 million people who remain there. But at a minimum, this war has to be brought to an end. Otherwise, there is really no future for Gaza.
FADEL: That Khaled Elgindy, a senior fellow at the Middle East Institute. Thank you for your time.
ELGINDY: Thanks for having me. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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