TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. As we continue our series on classic films and movie icons, my next guest became the face of Gen X angst in her teens. Molly Ringwald grew to fame in the '80s with films like "Sixteen Candles," "The Breakfast Club," and "Pretty In Pink." Ringwald is also a singer. Starting at a young age with her dad's group, the Fulton Street Jazz Band. I spoke to Ringwald earlier this year.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
MOSLEY: Molly Ringwald, welcome to FRESH AIR.
MOLLY RINGWALD: Thank you for having me. It's an honor.
MOSLEY: Do you like working with the same director, producers, over and over again? I mean, you had this experience in working with John Hughes, the late filmmaker, for the movies that were iconic in the '80s - "The Breakfast Club," "Pretty In Pink," and "Sixteen Candles." It almost feels like maybe it's like following a boss from job to job, in a way.
RINGWALD: I really love working with the same people as long as I like the people...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
RINGWALD: ...As long as they're good and, you know, if I have a positive experience. Yeah, I mean, I stopped working with John after, you know, the three movies that I did with him. I was supposed to do one more and then it didn't end up happening.
MOSLEY: "Some Kind Of Wonderful," yeah.
RINGWALD: Well, I was asked - no, I was asked to do "Some Kind Of Wonderful," which was directed by Howie Deutch, who also directed "Pretty In Pink," and he asked me to do it, but I didn't. Because at that point I was really worried about, you know, people never seeing me in another project. So that was my feeling, was that I had to work with somebody else because I was going to get typecast. But you know what? I got typecast anyway, so I should have just kept working with him.
MOSLEY: Well, I mean, I want to talk to you a little bit about that because you were the poster child for a generation. You were on the cover of Time Magazine. You were a household name. But you've done so much more since then. How do you reconcile or deal with the fact that for a certain generation of people, you will always be seen as a teenager?
RINGWALD: I don't know. It sort of depends on the day. You know, there's been times where I've been really frustrated by that. I feel like people always think that I'm younger than I am or older than I am (laughter), you know?
MOSLEY: Really?
RINGWALD: Yeah.
MOSLEY: The older is interesting. Yeah.
RINGWALD: Well, older just because, you know, I've been around for so long, you know, I - and I also started really young. You know, a lot of times people, you know, all - I'm the same age as a lot of people that became famous in the '90s. But they'll think that I'm older because I was famous in the '80s.
MOSLEY: Yes, yes, that makes sense.
RINGWALD: Yeah. So I feel like those films are always - they're, you know, they're iconic and they're special. I don't like to use the word iconic because I feel like it's overused, but they really are. Those films are really iconic.
MOSLEY: I want to actually play a clip from "Pretty In Pink," which came out in 1986, because you've written quite a bit about your experiences during that time period and working with John Hughes, and also just reflecting back on the time period as we move forward in time, especially during the #MeToo movement. In this clip that I'm about to play - this is from "Pretty In Pink." You played a high school senior, Andie Walsh, who lives with her working-class father in a Chicago suburb. One of the rich, popular kids, Blane, played by Andrew McCarthy, falls for you and eventually asks you out to the prom before pulling away at the last minute after being pressured not to date you by one of his friends, played by James Spader. So in this scene, your character Andie confronts Blane about why he's ignoring her. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "PRETTY IN PINK")
RINGWALD: (As Andie) I called you three times and I left messages.
ANDREW MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Yeah. Well, I didn't get them. My family - they're irresponsible about that stuff, you know.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) I waited for you this morning.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Yeah? Where?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Parking lot. I saw you, and I thought that you saw me.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) No.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) What about prom, Blane?
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Andie, I'm having a bad day. Can we talk later?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) No. What about prom?
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Come on. Why don't we just meet after school?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) No. What about prom?
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Andie, come on.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Just say it.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) What?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Just say it. I want to hear you say it.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) Andie, please, all right?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) I want to hear you say it.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) A month ago, I asked somebody else, and I forgot.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) You're a liar. You're a filthy [expletive] no-good liar. You don't have the guts to tell me the truth. Just say it.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) I'm not lying.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Tell me.
MCCARTHY: (as Blane) What?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Tell me.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) What do you want to hear?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) Just tell me.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) What?
RINGWALD: (As Andie) You're ashamed to be seen with me.
MCCARTHY: (As Blane) No, I am not.
RINGWALD: (As Andie) You're ashamed to go out with me. You're afraid. You're terrified your friends won't approve. Just say it.
MOSLEY: That was a scene from the 1986 cult classic "Pretty In Pink." I was very young when I saw this film, Molly, and I still - at that scene, it takes me back to high school and rejection in that same way.
RINGWALD: I know. It actually makes me emotional.
MOSLEY: It does, huh?
RINGWALD: It does because I feel for her, and I also can't help but hear my kids in it. That's what I really love about - I mean, I have written extensively about the issues that I have with certain elements of the films and, you know, what I don't agree with and the elements that don't age well. But the fact that he would write a movie, that John would write...
MOSLEY: John Hughes. Yeah.
RINGWALD: ...That John Hughes would write a whole film, you know, about a girl getting uninvited to prom and how huge that is. You know, in the life of a teenager that is huge. And of course, like hearing myself, you know, I hear my younger voice and, you know, it takes me back.
MOSLEY: You actually watched - it was "The Breakfast Club" - with your daughter several years ago.
RINGWALD: Yeah, I did.
MOSLEY: Yeah. What have been your kids' reaction to seeing this younger version and also playing what you say John Hughes really captured, the realities of a young person?
RINGWALD: Well, I played it for my now-20-year-old daughter when she was 10, which was really, I think, too young to watch "The Breakfast Club." But all of her friends had seen it, and, you know, she didn't want to watch it at a slumber party or, you know, she didn't want to watch it with someone else. She wanted to watch it with me. So we did watch it, and I ended up doing a piece on that experience for This American Life.
MOSLEY: This American Life, yeah.
RINGWALD: And it was really interesting to watch it with her and what she got out of it because, you know, at the age of 10, she - of course, there was a lot of stuff that went over her head, mercifully, because, you know, we didn't have to have that conversation. But what we did get out of it was that it had to do with her feelings with us. You know, that I was putting pressure on her, you know, because at the time, you know, we were having a hard time with - you know, I was having a hard time with, you know, making her do her homework and feeling like, you know, oh, come on, do this - you know, I wanted her to be a certain kind of student. So it was really an incredible experience to be able to have that conversation and actually feel like it changed my relationship with her, and it changed my way of parenting, basically.
MOSLEY: It changed your way of parenting?
RINGWALD: Yeah.
MOSLEY: You were able to have language based on that. That movie gave you language.
RINGWALD: Yeah. And, you know, also when I watch the movies now, of course, I'm very curious about the parents because the parents are really - they're not seen. You only hear about the parents from what the kids feel. But you don't know what the situation is at home. I mean, all of them feel like they're being either neglected or misunderstood or outright abused, you know, as John Bender's character, played by Judd Nelson, is physically abused by his father. So yeah, that was a really interesting experience and also pretty surreal. But it took a lot out of me. And I knew I was going to have to watch the movies again with my now 14-year-old twins. And it took me, you know, a long time to feel like I could do it again. And we just watched the movies about - I don't know - three weeks ago. And...
MOSLEY: Did you have similar insights?
RINGWALD: They loved the movie. They didn't take out their phones once, which was incredible.
MOSLEY: Is a big deal, yeah.
RINGWALD: Yeah. I mean, I was looking. I mean, the phones were there, and I was like, how long is it going to take for them to pick up their phones? And they didn't. But it was also interesting because they are older, you know? The, you know, sexual harassment that my character, Claire, experiences - you know, which she is. She's harassed by John Bender the whole time. You know, that really did not resonate with them. They could not figure out why I went with him in the end. It was really sort of - like, they were just bewildered.
And it didn't seem strange to me that she goes with Bender in the end, which is interesting, that that doesn't seem strange. I mean, I had a great relationship with my father, you know, who passed away a couple of years ago. So there's really no reason why that should've been normalized for me, but it was, this idea that, oh, if somebody treats you badly or, you know, isn't complimentary or whatever, that that should be the person that you go for. But strangely, it was. And that's just not the case anymore.
MOSLEY: I thought it was just really interesting, these questions that you pose to yourself and to the audience in your New Yorker piece in 2018, where you wrote, how are we meant to feel about art that we both love and oppose? What if we are in the unusual position of having helped create it? What answers or thoughts have you actually come to about where those movies sit in our culture, especially now having these experiences with your children?
RINGWALD: Yeah, I do love the movies and I'm really glad that I made them. It's not black or white, you know? Those movies are not perfect, but there is so much good in them. And there are also things that are not good, or there's things that have changed. The lack of diversity bothers me in those movies. Certainly, you know, the sexual politics bother me, but they were movies of a time. To me, that is one of the dangers of this desire to erase the past. I don't personally believe that you can erase the past, but you can look at it and you can debate and you can talk about it. And I believe that talking about it and understanding it is what sets us free, not trying to erase it.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, I'm talking with Molly Ringwald about her career. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF THOMPSON TWINS SONG, "IF YOU WERE HERE")
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, I'm talking with Molly Ringwald. She grew to fame in the 1980s for the movies "Sixteen Candles," "The Breakfast Club" and "Pretty In Pink."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
MOSLEY: I want to talk briefly about other aspects of your career because you're a writer, you're an actor - of course, we know this about you - but you also are a singer. And I read that some of your first memories were singing with your father onstage. I want to play a clip of you at 6 years old singing Hot Time In The Old Town Tonight with your father and his group, the Fulton Street Jazz Band. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "HOT TIME IN THE OLD TOWN TONIGHT")
FULTON STREET JAZZ BAND: (Singing) Come along, get your partner, wear your grand brand-new gown, for there's going to be a party in this good, good old town, where you know everybody and they all know you and you got to get down just to drive away the blues. When you hear that music start to play, tap your feet and start to step asway. And when you get the rhythm, you'll want to shout hooray. It'll be a hot time in the old town tonight, my baby. When you hear the bells go ding-a-ling, I'll turn around and gaily you must sing. And when the verse is through and chorus all join in, it'll be a hot time in the old town tonight
MOSLEY: That was Molly Ringwald at 6 years old performing "Hot Time In The Old Town Tonight" with her father's jazz band.
RINGWALD: That song was a real traditional jazz song. And it's very emotional for me because, yeah, I performed with my dad since I was 3, and he passed away a couple of years ago. And...
MOSLEY: I'm so sorry.
RINGWALD: Thank you. And he was a really incredible person. And I performed with him for my whole life. And not only did I perform with him, but we had an incredible connection. He was a really amazing - he was an amazing father and incredible musician. And, yeah, it's hard. I just - I miss him a lot.
MOSLEY: Yeah. I mean, I can feel that. And I know you've talked quite a bit about your father's influence. I think you called him a big fish in a small pond as a jazz musician...
RINGWALD: Yeah.
MOSLEY: He was very well-respected.
RINGWALD: He was beloved. He was not just well-respected, but he was beloved.
MOSLEY: Was it natural for you and your siblings to perform with him and his band? That was something that was just a natural family occurrence for you guys - yeah - to sing together.
RINGWALD: It was something that I did. My sister and my brother were not musical in the same way. It was something that - my mom actually was the one who noticed that I was a singer, because I was the last of four children. My first brother died when he was 3 1/2 - and then my sister and then my brother. So I was the fourth kid. And there was something in the way that I, I guess, babbled in the crib or something that she said, this is different. She's singing. And she was the one who told my father that she thought that I was a singer. And so that's when we started to work together. And that was really kind of a bond that we had. That was, like, our special bond.
MOSLEY: Your father was also visually impaired. And I find from personal experience that children in my life with parents who are deaf or blind have a certain maturity and emotional intelligence that seems to serve them well in life. And I was just wondering if you see that in yourself.
RINGWALD: I do. I mean, it's really hard for me to have anything to compare it to because he's...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
RINGWALD: ...The only father that I had. But I definitely think that he gave me an eye for detail. I do feel like I was - whenever I was around my father, especially when we would watch movies or we would go anywhere, I feel like I would notice things. And I was always looking for things to tell him. You know, and I was kind of like his eyes in a way. And I kind of prided myself on that. He was somebody - I was somebody that he really liked to watch movies with because I was really good at explaining things.
MOSLEY: You all would watch movies together, and you'd be the narrator.
RINGWALD: That's right. That's right. And I do feel like it gave me a certain emotional maturity. It was also just different. You know, I think my dad wasn't only blind, but he was a musician. And he supported our family by being a musician. And so he had - you know, he was unlike other fathers. You know, he didn't drive. My mom did all the driving. And, you know, he - we would have family dinner together. And then my father would go to work, and he would work all night. You know, when I was growing up, he was a working musician, did piano bar and did - you know, sometimes my father would work seven days a week. And we never went on vacation. I think we took one family vacation together because my dad was always working.
MOSLEY: You kind of sit in the middle of these two things now, you watching your daughter as an actor. What kinds of advice do you give her?
RINGWALD: I try to give her - I say give her advice. I mean, it's hard, you know, with your kids because, you know, she and my other kids - they're going to have to discover things for themselves. You know, my - Matilda has been passionate about acting. You know, she's wanted to act since she was a kid, like me, and my husband and I made the choice not to allow her to be professional. You know, and I guess the advice that I've given her is just to learn how to act. You know, we have given her, you know, acting lessons. We've - you know, Matilda has fantastic taste in movies. I mean, she's always had really great taste in movies. But we'll sit, and we'll watch movies. And we'll talk about, you know, what makes them good and what makes particular performances. I mean, we'll watch, you know, like, Gandolfini - you know, James Gandolfini in "The Sopranos," and we'll watch monologues. And we'll stop and go back and - you know, and talk about what makes that so good and so powerful.
But it's also a really hard business. So I've talked about that, too, because just because you're a talented actor doesn't mean that you can be successful in this career. They're almost, like, two different things. And it's hard because, you know, in order to be an actor, a good actor, you have to be a really emotional person and be able to access that emotion. But also, being a very emotional, sensitive person is not - it's not very easy to be in a business that - where you're rejected a great deal of time. So, you know, those are issues that we talk about.
MOSLEY: Molly Ringwald, I really enjoyed this conversation.
RINGWALD: Me, too.
MOSLEY: Thank you so much.
RINGWALD: Thank you. And I also didn't say, too, that FRESH AIR was one of my father's favorite shows. He - like, all of - like, all the time, he was like, when are you going to do that FRESH AIR? You know, he would - you know, if there's a heaven somewhere, my dad is definitely smiling.
MOSLEY: I spoke with Molly Ringwald earlier this year. When we come back, we'll hear from another film icon who also started out as a child actor, Jodie Foster. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "EXACTLY LIKE YOU")
RINGWALD: (Singing) I know why I've waited, know why I've been blue, prayed each night for someone exactly like you. Why should we spend money on a show or two? No one does those love scenes exactly like you. You make me feel so grand. I want to hand the world to you. You make me understand each foolish little dream I'm dreaming, scheme I'm scheming. Now I know WHY mother taught me to be true. She meant me for someone exactly like you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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