STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We are four days away from a government shutdown.
A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
And a memo from the White House promises to punish federal workers if that happens. The Trump administration is threatening large-scale layoffs if Democrats don't provide the necessary votes to avoid a shutdown. We don't know exactly which jobs would be targeted or how many federal workers could lose their jobs, but the deadline to come up with a solution is fast approaching.
INSKEEP: And NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprunt will be covering whatever happens. Barbara, good morning.
BARBARA SPRUNT, BYLINE: Hey. Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: OK. So this is kind of a departure from the normal shutdown scenario where the government says, we're going to increase the pain. What prompted this?
SPRUNT: Well, there's a line in the memo that I think is telling here, essentially saying, we're hopeful that Democrats in Congress don't trigger a shutdown, and then this won't be necessary. So I think this is partly aimed at making any funding lapse as difficult as possible for Democrats.
INSKEEP: Got it.
SPRUNT: Normally in a shutdown, you know, agencies furlough federal workers temporarily until a deal is brokered and a stopgap funding bill is passed. This is next-level. It's instructing agencies to look for workers to fire permanently, people whose work is not consistent with the president's priorities.
INSKEEP: How are Democrats responding?
SPRUNT: Well, they view it as an intimidation tactic to get them to accept the continuing resolution that House Republicans passed that would fund the government through November 21. I spoke with Maryland Senator Chris Van Hollen, a Democrat, about this yesterday. Here's what he had to say.
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN: This is nothing less than Mafia-style blackmail. Essentially, the president is threatening to fire dedicated federal employees who have nothing to do with the ongoing political and policy dispute.
SPRUNT: Meanwhile, Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer says that if these firings do go forward, he suspects they'll eventually be overturned in court.
INSKEEP: Although we've learned when the president fires someone, even if a court finds illegality, it's difficult to reverse the firing, so we'll see. Is anybody talking about getting a deal out of this?
SPRUNT: Well, top congressional Democrats were supposed to meet with President Trump yesterday at the White House, but the president canceled that meeting, saying it would be pointless to meet because Democrats, in his view, are making unreasonable demands.
INSKEEP: Which are what?
SPRUNT: Well, Democrats want to roll back some Medicaid changes that were part of the big tax and spending bill that the president signed earlier this summer, and they want to extend tax credits from the Affordable Care Act that are set to expire at the end of the year. House Democratic leader Hakeem Jeffries has said a verbal agreement that comes in any sort of negotiation isn't enough. Democrats want to address these issues in written legislation. Here he is yesterday.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)
HAKEEM JEFFRIES: We're able to sit down any time, any place with anyone, not hard to find. I'm here in the Capitol, willing to go to the White House at any time in order to have that conversation.
SPRUNT: But, you know, Steve, yes, this is about the shutdown. It's a very real possibility, and it would have very real consequences for people who rely on certain services and workers who might find themselves without a job permanently. But this is also about an ongoing conflict between the White House and Democrats in Congress who feel the administration has continued to overreach in its authority and diminish the legislative branch's power of the purse. So yes, this memo is unprecedented, but it also very much follows the administration's philosophy that we've seen play out again and again this year.
INSKEEP: Well, Barbara, I hope you're ready for a busy few days here.
SPRUNT: Looking forward to it. Thanks, Steve.
INSKEEP: NPR congressional correspondent Barbara Sprunt. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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