ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Every week, a guest draws a card from NPR's Wild Card deck and answers a big question about their life. Brett Goldstein is best known for starring in and helping to create "Ted Lasso" and "Shrinking." His newest project is an HBO stand-up special out this Saturday. It's called "The Second Best Night Of Your Life." He told Wild Card host Rachel Martin what he loves about performing stand-up.
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BRETT GOLDSTEIN: It's not really saying - is this funny? - when you try something. What you're saying is, am I insane?
RACHEL MARTIN: Based on the reaction?
GOLDSTEIN: Yeah. If they laugh, it's like, oh, I'm not alone. You also think this.
MARTIN: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
GOLDSTEIN: Or sometimes, no, you are insane, but it's OK. We get it. If it doesn't work, then you go, oh, I am a very weird person. And that's a horrible feeling.
SHAPIRO: Well, for his Wild Card answer, Goldstein told Rachel about how empathy plays into his work.
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MARTIN: What does age teach you about love?
GOLDSTEIN: I read something that Steve Martin said that he found stand-up harder as he got older because - maybe not stand-up. Forgive me for misquoting. He found the comedy part harder because he had more empathy for people, so it was harder to be mean. And I guess that's...
MARTIN: Oh.
GOLDSTEIN: ...Where comedy was. I think if you look hard enough at anyone, you can love them. And I do really mean that. I don't mean that in a cheesy way. I mean it...
MARTIN: No, I know.
GOLDSTEIN: I mean it like me at my worst - like, I'm saying this - I don't, you know, want to hang out with people, but, like, you know, if you're like, strapped with somebody, like [expletive] this person is so boring. This person's so [expletive], that's on you. Like, I have to right - ask the right question. And I'm sure there is a key to this person that if I ask the right question, I will suddenly be flooded with love for them, you know?
MARTIN: Yeah. Yeah, I do. No. But can I nudge on that? How did you come to that realization?
GOLDSTEIN: (Laughter) I think I've had this cycle with people. I have it where - I have it often, and I tried to make the cycle shorter. But I've had it on jobs or something where there's a person that I will instantly dislike, someone I'll be like, oh, this [expletive]. Like, whether they trigger me or, you know, something about them I find so annoying, or they're so [expletive] pathetic. Something about them - I'm like, God, they're so needy. I don't know what it is - something. I'm like, get this person away from me. And then something will happen along the way. A couple of weeks in, I'll see something, I'll see anything, and suddenly, I will fight to the death for that person. Like, I'll be like, I love - I have so much love for them.
MARTIN: Are you good at telling people after you've come to that - like, that arc? Like, wow...
GOLDSTEIN: What? Do I go I used to do...
MARTIN: I really thought you were an...
GOLDSTEIN: No, no, they wouldn't - I hope they wouldn't know. I wouldn't say, I thought you were an absolute nightmare, and I was wrong - because often they still are. I mean, there's a certain type of person where it's like, you are still a nightmare, but I've now found a way to...
MARTIN: Right. That's right.
GOLDSTEIN: ...Have empathy and love you.
MARTIN: And they probably think...
GOLDSTEIN: You haven't stopped being a nightmare.
MARTIN: ... The same about you.
GOLDSTEIN: No, come on.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDSTEIN: Don't be ridiculous (ph).
SHAPIRO: You can watch that full conversation by following Wild Card with Rachel Martin on YouTube. Brett Goldstein's HBO special "The Second Best Night Of Your Life" is out this Saturday.
(SOUNDBITE OF RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS SONG, "SCAR TISSUE") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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