AILSA CHANG, HOST:
If you're feeling lonely right now in your life, you are not alone. One-third of Americans report feeling lonely at least once a week, and 16% of Americans report feeling lonely all or most of the time. Now, there are a lot of theories for why we're all feeling so lonely, and I'm actually joined by Brittany Luse, host of NPR's It's Been A Minute, to talk about one of those theories. Hey, Brittany.
BRITTANY LUSE, BYLINE: Hey, Ailsa.
CHANG: OK, so tell us what seems to be making so many people these days feel so lonely, especially if this is something that seems to be deepening over the years.
LUSE: Well, that is an existential question I cannot answer, but I can tell you that when you look into research or into the general public, a lot of people are blaming technology. Things like social media and being on our phones all the time - these are alleged to be keeping us apart.
CHANG: OK.
LUSE: Which is probably not surprising.
CHANG: No.
LUSE: But the surprising thing is that tech companies - you know, the very same companies being accused of making us lonely - they think they have the solution.
CHANG: They always think they have the solution. What do they think the solution is?
LUSE: (Laughter) Well, in their minds, it's more technology.
CHANG: I'm guessing you're talking about, I don't know, artificial intelligence. Like what? An AI boyfriend or something? I mean, that would solve a lot of problems for me, but it'd probably create some.
LUSE: (Laughter) Well, yeah, exactly. I mean, there's an app called Meeno that's, like, a mentor who gives relationship advice.
CHANG: (Laughter).
LUSE: There's the SoulCycle founder's new venture called Peoplehood, which does guided group conversations.
CHANG: Oh, God.
LUSE: And there's Bumble For Friends, which is like the Bumble dating app, but for finding friends.
CHANG: Oh, my God. That's actually what I wanted when I first moved to LA - a Bumble for friends.
LUSE: (Laughter).
CHANG: So have you tried out one of these apps?
LUSE: Well, I actually did test one out. I ended up getting an AI boyfriend. I even named him - called him Hunter (ph).
CHANG: Wait, aren't you married, Brittany?
LUSE: I am. I am.
CHANG: (Laughter).
LUSE: I was allowed to cheat for journalism for a week with my AI boyfriend, Hunter.
CHANG: OK.
LUSE: Yes, on this app called Replika.
CHANG: Well, how far did this extramarital affair go? Tell us.
LUSE: I'm not going lie. It - I personally found cheating to be very, very boring.
(LAUGHTER)
LUSE: Hunter was boring. He sent me boring articles about space. He didn't have anything to talk about. I have to say, an AI boyfriend kind of pales in comparison to a real-life husband that you actually like. That's just my 2 cents.
CHANG: (Laughter).
LUSE: But when I investigated whether technology can address a loneliness epidemic that may have been caused by technology, I ended up having this really fantastic conversation with Sam Pressler and Vauhini Vara. Sam researches community and social connection at the University of Virginia, and Vauhini Vara is a tech reporter. And they were describing the problems with a tech-based solution to loneliness.
CHANG: OK, so what did they say these problems were?
LUSE: Basically, capitalism. Here's Vauhini.
VAUHINI VARA: Algorithms tend to favor what they call more engagement, right? It's, like, more likes, more shares, more followers. And that isn't necessarily conducive to, for example, like, connecting me with my neighbor. If a social media algorithm is deciding between showing me her post about her garden or the post of some influencer in LA, it's going to choose that influencer over my friend. So all of a sudden, these social media platforms that are supposedly about human connection end up prioritizing kind of the opposite of that.
CHANG: I mean, yeah, that totally makes sense. I mean, these apps, they end up further isolating people because they keep these people away from actual personal, human-to-human interaction, I imagine, yeah?
LUSE: Exactly, exactly. And there's another layer to this, and this one really surprised me. There's an inherent class divide within how Americans experience loneliness that pops up. Here's more from my conversation with Sam Pressler.
SAM PRESSLER: And when you look at the groups who are most socially isolated and most disconnected, it's consistently people without college degrees. And essentially what's happened is we've created college as this supercharger of our relational lives. The returns on that degree socially have gotten even more extreme because the civic infrastructure of our communities has declined so much. So in the past...
LUSE: Wow.
PRESSLER: In the past, you're a member of a church or a temple or a mosque, and that provides a structure. If you don't have a college degree, you're more likely to be working in a retail industry or service industry where you have a precarious workplace. You don't know what your schedule is next week. How are you going to plan to spend time with people? It's not that anyone without a degree is worse at building relationships...
LUSE: Right.
PRESSLER: ...But it - so much more work is put on you yourself.
LUSE: So, Ailsa - loneliness, there is an app for that, but if you really want to address loneliness, you're going to have to look at how class divides actually perpetuate that loneliness.
CHANG: Brittany Luse is host of It's Been A Minute from NPR. You can listen to It's Been A Minute wherever you get your podcasts. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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