AILSA CHANG, HOST:
We're right outside the place where millions of election ballots get tabulated. And if you look up, you will see that it would be a really bad idea to climb the fence here.
TAYLOR KINNERUP: So the fence you're standing in front of is about a 6.5-foot fence, and this was added post 2020.
CHANG: I see the very sharp spikes at the end of each post on this fence. Is that...
KINNERUP: Yes.
CHANG: ...On purpose (laughter)?
KINNERUP: A little intentional, a little imposing, but also...
CHANG: Taylor Kinnerup is on the communications team for county elections. She's showing us around the Maricopa County Tabulation and Election Center here in Phoenix. That's MCTEC, for short. And let's just say you managed to maneuver over this spiky fence without getting impaled. Well, then, you would have to contend with this.
KINNERUP: But it's a chain-link fence.
CHANG: Yeah.
KINNERUP: And then in front of that, we have the concrete K-rails. Those are additional barriers we add during an active election time.
CHANG: So how many barriers are we talking - like, layers of walls and gates and fences?
KINNERUP: Multiple barriers. We have three fences, per se. And then, once you get inside, we also have additional guards.
CHANG: They got the guards. They got the metal detectors, the doors that only unlock with special badges...
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CHANG: ...The secure cages that store the ballots. Oh, and don't forget to look up.
KINNERUP: If you smile right now, we are on livestream cameras.
CHANG: Hello. Hello.
That's right, 24-hour video surveillance that any member of the public can watch online. Pretty quickly, you come to realize that this place is one massive fortress, especially on Election Day.
KINNERUP: This will be even more of a citadel where we have sheriff's deputies on horseback patrolling the facility. We'll have nonuniformed officers in and out of the building as well as throughout the county. We have FBI agents on the ground. We will have SWAT on the roof, and we will have snipers on adjacent roofs.
CHANG: Wow.
KINNERUP: And this is a closed airspace.
CHANG: Did you just say snipers?
KINNERUP: Correct.
CHANG: Wow. That's where we're at now.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: (Inaudible).
CHANG: That's where we're at now because, on the last presidential election night, chaos erupted at this building.
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: (Chanting) Four more years.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #3: 1776, the answer...
CHANG: Armed protesters gathered outside. Right-wing provocateur Alex Jones showed up. And then, after Arizona was called for Joe Biden, there were months of allegations about voter fraud, about problems with the voting machines and the vote count. There were so many investigations, so much litigation, it's no wonder, four years later, the Maricopa County elections team knows it can't take any chances. So the leaders of that team have to pay attention to the most minute, often the most mundane and boring details of election administration.
STEPHEN RICHER: Thank you for that charitable description of my profession.
CHANG: (Laughter).
This is Stephen Richer, a Republican, elected to the office of county recorder in 2020 - which means, along with obsessing about details like the thickness of ballot paper and which envelopes best fit that paper, he's in charge of early voting. That's a big deal since this county expects the vast majority of its 2.1 million ballots to be cast early. Oh, and you should know that, this year, 35% of Maricopa's voters are registered Republican, 29% Democrat and 36% have either third- or no party affiliation.
RICHER: When we talk about large election jurisdictions, Maricopa County looms significantly because we're the second-largest voting jurisdiction, and we're politically competitive.
CHANG: Second largest in the country - a lot of Richer's preparation for 2024 began his very first week on the job in 2021. He took office just a couple days before January 6.
What did that feel like to be watching...
RICHER: Yeah.
CHANG: ...From Maricopa County, what was happening at the U.S. Capitol?
RICHER: Well, not just happening at the U.S. Capitol, happening at our offices. And...
CHANG: What happened here?
RICHER: ...So on my third day in office, when I was still learning how to, you know, use my email system or how to dial out of the office, I had to send an email to say, everyone, you should work from home because we had protesters outside of some of our offices - people who were using some of the same guillotine imagery that was used at the Capitol here in Arizona. And it was weird just because, one, I didn't think something like that could happen in the United States, and you're watching it on TV, and you're not even really know how to process it. But it was quickly impressed upon me just how much of a - this conversation was not going to end.
CHANG: I'm so curious what your state of mind was like, what you were feeling about your own safety, the safety of your family?
RICHER: I was frustrated. I was frustrated that I felt like I was already being put between a rock and a hard place. I was very angry that we'd created this dynamic where we were turning on each other within the Republican Party, and you couldn't win, especially if you were an election official.
CHANG: You received some pretty serious threats to your life and safety, right?
RICHER: Yep.
CHANG: Let's talk about that. What kind of threats?
RICHER: You know, in person, you have people who come up and - you know, they jostle you. They push you. They bang on your windshield. So many emails, social media messages - I mean, the garden variety is you're a traitor and you're going to hang in Gitmo.
CHANG: I mean, didn't one state party official talk about you getting lynched, or you should be getting lynched...
RICHER: Yeah.
CHANG: ...In a video?
RICHER: I mean, at that point, because that was in 2024, I was sort of numb to it. But what was sad about that one was that, when she said that, people were cheering. Like, that's not heartwarming, as somebody who would prefer to not be lynched.
CHANG: I read that you got voicemails on your cellphone telling you to run and hide.
RICHER: Run and hide. You're not going to make it to your next meeting. We're going to go after your kids. A guy in Texas, who's now in jail - I want to put that Jew in the oven so badly that I can taste it.
CHANG: Wow.
RICHER: Yeah. Yeah.
CHANG: I'm sorry I keep asking about your feelings, but how does that feel?
RICHER: You know, when those calls were made, they would be made during some pretty emotional times, and so it's harrowing. And then you sort of look around - who are the Republican elected officials saying, like, that's unacceptable; that shouldn't happen? And there are - you know, they're a precious few.
CHANG: Do you think there were any criticisms of the county election process that were somewhat justified - things that the county could have done better?
RICHER: Yes. Yes. Yes, of course. To say otherwise is foolish. And that is certainly true of the 2020 election. It's certainly true of the 2022 election. I dare say it will be true of the 2024 election. And I think that we should also be revisiting the state election law.
CHANG: So give me a couple of lessons, either from 2020 or 2022 midterms.
RICHER: Following the 2020 election, there was a theory that Sharpies used by voters that bled through to the backside would affect the tabulation. And then it turned into something that was much bigger than this.
CHANG: SharpieGate (ph).
RICHER: Yes, SharpieGate. And we know that the columns are offset. So even if it does bleed through, it has no impact on the races on the back side. Should that have been communicated better? Probably. I think speeding up results is an important thing that we should be working on. And it's why I've also advocated at the state legislature for saying that early ballots have to be dropped off early just so we can have a higher percentage of results available on Election Day. So those are the types of things that I think should be revisited on a regular basis to try and improve.
CHANG: So I'm sorry for bringing this up, but you lost your primary...
RICHER: I did.
CHANG: ...In July.
RICHER: (Inaudible).
CHANG: (Laughter).
RICHER: I mean, that's a fact. Like, it happens in elections, so...
CHANG: So you're going to be leaving the office after this election. First of all, are you a little bit relieved that you don't have to continue onto another term?
RICHER: Oh, my God. Yes.
CHANG: (Laughter) Why did you even run again, then?
RICHER: One, because it's an important conversation we're having right now as a country, as a state, as a party. Two, because I'm a stubborn a**, and it's, like, you know...
CHANG: (Laughter).
RICHER: ...Come pry it out from me. I'm not giving up. Like, you know, like, I didn't do anything wrong. Like, you don't get to take this from me. And like, who the hell are you to tell me about what a true Republican is? Like, I've read more books on conservatism in one month than you have in your lifetime.
CHANG: Do you have any advice for your successor?
RICHER: No. But my gift that I hope to leave for my successor is that he doesn't have to do this for the next four years like I had to do it.
CHANG: What do you mean?
RICHER: Like, I just hope that we are in a place where we accept the results of the 2024 election because it's been fairly administered. It's been lawfully administered, and it's been capably communicated, such that my successor doesn't have to spend his entire existence talking about an election that predated his time in office, as I have had to do.
CHANG: Stephen Richer, Maricopa County recorder. Thank you so much for spending all of this time with us.
RICHER: Thank you very much.
CHANG: And tomorrow, we'll hear what's at stake in Arizona on a major issue in this year's election - immigration - as our series, We, The Voters, continues. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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