AILSA CHANG, HOST:
All right, to Ukraine now. The Trump administration has sent clear signals that it expects Kyiv to make hard concessions to Moscow, that is if there is to be a negotiated end to Russia's full-scale war against Ukraine. This appears to be a drastic change in U.S. policy that leaves Ukraine with little leverage. Joining us now to discuss all of this is NPR Ukraine correspondent Joanna Kakissis. Hi, Joanna.
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Hi, Ailsa.
CHANG: Hi. So what are you hearing from people in Ukraine about this seeming shift in U.S. policy?
KAKISSIS: Well, Ailsa, the events yesterday sure triggered a tsunami of dread in Ukraine. The fear is that Ukraine's strongest ally is cozying up to its biggest enemy, Russia, which has repeatedly attacked Ukraine. And to Ukrainians it's reminiscent of earlier peace efforts, about a decade ago, back when Western powers tried to pause fighting in eastern Ukraine, again, largely on terms favorable to Russia. Here in Kyiv, we spoke to Roman Martinov. He is a military chaplain.
ROMAN MARTINOV: I'm speaking a lot with military guys. They are all disappointed about it 'cause we had some promises. We had some guarantees, and the Western world can't keep promises.
KAKISSIS: And Martinov's wife told us, you know, she's heartbroken.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: (Speaking Ukrainian).
KAKISSIS: So she's saying it feels like Ukraine is being torn apart, that the U.S. was supposed to help. And now - and Ukrainians had some hope, and now it feels like they're just throwing us back into the pit.
CHANG: Well, with all of this attention on Putin and Trump, I'm just wondering what has President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Ukraine been saying?
KAKISSIS: Yeah. Well, President Zelenskyy has been subdued and diplomatic. He's putting on a brave face, though he does insist that he will not accept any agreements if Ukraine is not an equal partner in the process. He was speaking at a power plant today, and he says he wants more allies at the table.
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PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY: (Through interpreter) I believe that Europeans should also be at the negotiating table because we are part of Europe, and we will definitely be members of the European Union.
KAKISSIS: So Ailsa, Ukraine is currently in talks to become an E.U. member state. And EU leaders, as well as the head of NATO and top ministers from the United Kingdom, they've all come to Ukraine's defense today, and they insist that any peace deal must be fair to Ukraine and also must include solid security guarantees.
CHANG: Well, Joanna, what do most people in Ukraine seem to want right now?
KAKISSIS: Well, it's important to note that a majority of Ukrainians do want peace. They're exhausted after three years of war, and some, though not a majority, would consider some territorial concessions. But at what cost? You know, losing all Russian-occupied territory and a chance at NATO membership, which Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth said is likely, it's too much for the - for a lot of Ukrainians. We spoke to Zelenskyy's former foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, and he told us Zelenskyy must answer to both the public and the military as he negotiates a deal.
DMYTRO KULEBA: The army has the moral right to ask a question, what we were fighting for, what we were dying for. And he will have to give a decent answer to them. And second, it's fundamental that he reaches a deal that will end the war, but will not buy time for Russia instead.
CHANG: All right. That is NPR's Joanna Kakissis in Ukraine. Thank you, Joanna.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome, Ailsa.
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