ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
Quick - quote a famous Al Pacino line. The hard part isn't coming up with one. It's narrowing down the options.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
AL PACINO: (As Sonny Wortzik) Attica. Attica. Attica.
(As Michael Corleone) I know it was you, Fredo.
(As Lieutenant Colonel Frank Slade) Hoo-ah (ph).
(As Arthur Kirkland) You're out of order. The whole trial is out of order.
(As Tony Montana) Say hello to my little friend.
(SOUNDBITE OF GUNSHOT)
SHAPIRO: Today, it's hard to imagine anyone else playing Tony Montana in "Scarface" or Michael Corleone in "The Godfather." But early in shooting that film, the studio was not impressed with his performance, and he came very close to losing that iconic role, as Pacino writes in his new memoir, "Sonny Boy."
How did you escape getting fired from "The Godfather"? It was touch and go there for a while.
PACINO: Well, I had Francis Coppola. I mean - and when an actor has a director who just sees him, I mean, you're lucky because, you know, you're on his team, and he was persistent. And they didn't want me, didn't want me. So sooner or later - they didn't want Brando either. And there were a lot of differences. Francis Coppola had a lot of trouble getting that film together, and he was almost fired. And I was definitely - you know, it was a no-brainer. I was out.
SHAPIRO: Until one scene.
PACINO: One scene came, and I think we were two weeks into the film. And the story goes that Coppola brought that scene up further in the schedule so that I would do it sooner than later.
SHAPIRO: So that the studio could see you really had the goods.
PACINO: Yeah.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE GODFATHER")
PACINO: (As Michael Corleone) What I want, what's most important to me, is that I have a guarantee - no more attempts on my father's life.
And the scene was when Michael Corleone kills both Sollozzo and the police chief in the restaurant.
(SOUNDBITE OF GLASS SMASHING)
SHAPIRO: The thing I keep telling people - that I say, you'll never believe this - was that the first time you watched "The Godfather" beginning to end, you say in the book that it was the 50th anniversary screening.
PACINO: Well, 'cause I went in to see it at the opening night, and I was, you know, drunker than a buzzard that night.
SHAPIRO: It's a theme for the first half of the book, yeah.
PACINO: Yeah. And so I went in there, and I just sat. The lights went out. I went out.
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
PACINO: I just didn't want to see myself in front of all those people. You know, I was shy of it, embarrassed. I thought, what if they don't like it or like me? I just felt awkward. I always felt a little awkward and a little embarrassed.
SHAPIRO: When did you get over that embarrassment? When did you finally embrace...
PACINO: Now. Just now, talking to you, I guess.
SHAPIRO: It's an honor.
(LAUGHTER)
PACINO: I don't remember when, but it's a long haul. You know, I was - you know, I never felt comfortable, especially when the fame started to get, you know, out of proportion. And I found I had a difficult time adjusting.
SHAPIRO: Do you think that discomfort served you - that you never fit neatly in the role of a Hollywood celebrity?
PACINO: You know, that's a good point. I think I - yeah. I moved away from that role. And I lived in New York City, which was my home. And I was comfortable there, and I had friends there. You know, I mean, "Godfather" was such a wonderful film, and that character - this is someone who never wanted to be what he was. I think that's part of his tragedy.
SHAPIRO: It's funny you say that because, several times in the book, you talk about not wanting to be a movie star - wanting to just go make theater and be off-off-Broadway. And yet...
PACINO: Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, I just felt very lucky. It's like winning the lottery or something. But I didn't know I was a star, but I found out. But I didn't know I was famous until I went out into the streets and found that kind of energy coming toward me, but I didn't participate in it.
SHAPIRO: The divide about fame and success - that divide was especially true of "Scarface."
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "SCARFACE")
PACINO: (As Tony Montana) All I have in this world is my balls and my word, and I don't break them for no one. Do you understand?
Yes, it was, yeah.
SHAPIRO: A movie that critics did not immediately love...
PACINO: I don't think so.
SHAPIRO: ...That was not an immediate hit at the box office...
PACINO: No.
SHAPIRO: ...And yet, you could tell from the reaction of people on the street that something was happening.
PACINO: Well, yeah. When it first opened, people liked it. It did relatively well. But it was forgotten quickly, and it was resurrected in a way by hip-hop and the rappers who embraced the film and understood it, even got it on their songs. And that slowly took hold, and then the VHSs came out, and it just kept spreading out now.
"Scarface" - I just recently went to the Aero Theatre because they were having a showing of it there, and they wanted me to talk. So I talked a little - I was overwhelmed when I saw it. I hadn't seen it for years. And so when I went there and saw this film on this big screen and the people who - most of the people weren't even born when "Scarface" came out. You know, Brian De Palma wanted to make it like an opera. He says that's...
SHAPIRO: Over the top, operatic. Yeah.
PACINO: Yeah. That was his intent, so that somehow - and the color in there and John Alonzo's cinematography. So it was quite a film.
SHAPIRO: Al Pacino, thank you for talking with us about your life...
PACINO: Oh, my pleasure.
SHAPIRO: ...And about your book. The new memoir is called "Sonny Boy."
PACINO: Thanks.
SHAPIRO: And you can hear more of Al Pacino's reflections on his life and career at npr.org/allthingsconsidered. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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